Special Events Thread III

[Cobra5]

bughunter said:

heheehe, amusing conversation...

Hey DeSchryvers, if ya'll are selling your house, where ya'll goin then?

Mars.



Well, maybe washington, not sure. Cass is going to college, but myself, I am staying here.

[Tassatul]

daftalchemist said:

Ya know, cutting yourself with a lightsaber would be pointless because the wound would just burn shut anyway.

Stop me if I'm wrong. . . People cut their wrists for attention. So the lightsaber burns would be both good and bad for a person. Good, they won't accidentally die unless they really f**k up and like fall on it. Bad, people might realize this and not give them as much attention. I suspect in the Star Wars universe, emo kids just get sliced up by badass Sith who've had enough of their whineing. Or maybe they all get their own planet or something, since there is space travel. Mercuremo we could call it.

Btw, no one caught my "Jedi code is flawed" trolling. I am saddened than I cant launch into a rant.

[copyKatt]

and no one seems to care that were probably not going to be able to have another board party. that makes me sad

and were not going to mars (unfortunatly), joes looking for a house that closer to the highschool, and im not sure where mom is going. ill be in AZ over the summer and in hoboken when i get back, so im pretty much leaving everyone else to their own devices. not to sure whats going to happen. but whatever is going on, mars sounds a zillion times more appealing.

[BugHunter]

Careful, i heard a research station got overrun with demons up in Mars.

[daft alchemist]

tassatul said:

Btw, no one caught my "Jedi code is flawed" trolling. I am saddened than I cant launch into a rant.

Well, I would've pointed it out, except that Luke made it all better again by promoting the teaching of both light and dark side abilities (to a degree). Yaaay Luke! ;D

[Cobra5]

tassatul said:

Btw, no one caught my "Jedi code is flawed" trolling. I am saddened than I cant launch into a rant.

Why is the Jedi code flawed, Tassatul?

[Tassatul]

admin said:

tassatul said:

Btw, no one caught my "Jedi code is flawed" trolling. I am saddened than I cant launch into a rant.

Why is the Jedi code flawed, Tassatul?

Will I love you. In a purely Platonic way.


But, on to the whole Jedi Code deal. Heres the text version:
There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no chaos; there is harmony.
There is no death; there is the Force.

And for comparisons sake, the Sith Code:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

When looking at the Jedi Code, one might notice that its pretty much inhuman. No emotions? What is it that makes us human? Often, to draw a parallel, the evil guys in novels are emotionless and heartless(robots in most of sci-fi literature).

The next problem also deals with the Jedis' necessity for lack of emotion. As we've all heard and perhaps experienced, teenage years can be tough and troubleing times. Anakin was no different, but, as a Jedi, he knew he was not supposed to feel those feelings. People do not have direct controll over their emotions, and yet the Jedi expect them not to exist. Feeling hatred means youre headed to the dark side. The Jedi then feels guilty over the emotion he cannot control, but isnt supposed to have. Unearned guilt isnt healthy.

Meanwhile, the Sith preach emotion. Take a look at the key words in the Sith code. Passion, strength, power, victory. Now take a look at a typical resume for something other than a summer bs job. You just wrote a paper describing your passions, pointing out your strengths and victories, and showing your overall power. And the person with the most of these gets hired.

Now granted, unwarrented or misplaced emotion can be harmful. Think of the Holocaust. But also think of the other side of the war. The Allies went to war because they knew what was happening was wrong, and they were angry about it. Anger tells the victimized wife to leave the house for ever. Anger gives freedom fighters the will to battle an opressive regime. Anger reminds a person never to trust a liar again.



I am sad that we cant have a board party. We'll just have to have a huge party at Cass's college or something. Get her in touble first thing.

[BugHunter]

The Jedi code is not the thing that is flawed. It is the emotional human that fails to emulate it that is flawed. Its all about will power. People do have direct control over their emotions. One should be strong enough to control his emotions if he is to be a Jedi. If the subject fails to control them, then he did not try hard enough. A Jedi is not to act upon his emotions and is to do his job and maintain peace and harmony. The code stands as a standard, if you can't live up to it *cough*Anakin*cough* you shouldn't b*tch and whine about it ("waa, waa, why aren't I a master yet?!) or try to bend the rules so that it fits you (otherwise, it wouldn't be a standard).

The Sith code on the other hand is flawed. Constant passionate desire for strength and power does not lead to freedom. One becomes a slave to his own greed for power and will live only to gain more power, usually turning to more extremes as time goes on (Anakin and Sidius). When you look at people at the top of the corporate ladder in a capitalist world (like the US), you don't see them as happy, you find that they are under constant stress from a fear of losing all of their power, that or under stress to find a way to make even more money than they're making now.

I think George Lucas did a terrible job of portraying the Jedi (even though he created them). The Jedi codes are more attune to priests and guardians than warriors and generals. But hey, makes for a kick arse movie. Also brings us back to an important religious argument -- one should not hide behind one's religion as a reason for a war *cough*Bush*cough*.



Yes, we should have a shindig at Cass's college! I'll bring the toilet paper and eggs! Who's bringing the mongoose?

[daft alchemist]

Can we please not turn the Force into a "religious" debate as well?

[BugHunter]

Well the Jedi and the Sith are forms of religions in the Star Wars universe (and some really enthusiastic geeks). Besides I like the Jedi code. And a debate is a debate. No one is attacking anyone, it merely is a chance to see all the facts of both sides presented at the same time. Stop being so quesy about it.

[daft alchemist]

I'm not queasy. I'm slowly going insane because there's less and less for me to post about because I don't want to debate this stuff. Especially not the Force. I like it all just the way it is. And Luke does fix it anyway, so what's to debate?

[Cobra5]

Well, try not to spoil it for everyone else. If you don't like the conversation don't join it.

This is the special events thread, so unless you have special events, just post elsewhere

[Tassatul]

Man Francis youre just straight up Light Side eh? ;P Honestly though, how can you say someone who is completely emotionless is still human? Someone who is emotionless can kill without caring at all. Someone who has the capacity for emotion probably couldnt kill another without good reason (Yes, I know that emotion can lead to death as well, but we both know that extremes of either end of any argument are dangerous).

You say that a Jedi's job is is to maintain peace and harmony. How can an emotionally detached person even make a choice as to what is peaceful and harmonious? If he has no emotion, he cant care about anything, so how does he define "right" and "wrong?"

I really think the Sith Code can free a person who follows it. You cite business CEOs who are under constant stress to keep their power, so it chains them (essentially being not free). This is a good argument for that type of power, but there are other forms of power. If we're talking George Lucas, it could be using the Force to gain power, gaining allies, bringing about change in some way. In the real world, it could be something comparable. Starting a political party, gathering followers, bringing about change by gaining office.

My other problem with the Jedi code depends upon beliefs about the universe I suppose. Personally, I'm a fan of chaos. Not in the "omg dudez chaos anarachy lol!" way, but scientifically. There are so many variables in any situation that anything can happen at any time, from molecular movements right up to interpersonal relationships. That the Jedi would try to suppress this seems nigh impossible. Even if they were to succeed and spread serenity, harmony, peace around the galaxy, this means one thing to me: stagnation.

Theres no two ways about it, competition improves everything. Its why capitalism is so great. Everyone is striving to outsell the next guy, and so they must have the best product or service. This is true of war as well. Two opposing sides are striving to create the best weaponry and defence in order to beat the other guy, whether they are "in the right" or not. The best advances of the last 100 years came from wars. Computers, automobiles, airplanes, nuclear power, space flight - it was all created to beat the Nazis, or the Soviets, or whoever else. Granted millions of people may die - but people die in any case. Shouldn't they at least have some goal, some reason for their death? Its like the whole utopia leading to distopia - to much peace can be dangerous in itself.

I think I made all the points I wanted to. If not, maybe I'll think of them later. I also had an awesome article with a completely opposing view on chaos (everything that has ever happened and ever will happen is a result of specific movements of molecules, and therefore could be predicted. it puts in to question the idea of free will. Unfortunately I cannot find it at all, and cant explain it well from memory. Lets just say, if you really understand the article, it really fucks with your mind and how you view everythingp. Im going to look harder. . .)

[BugHunter]

I am a believer in order. Everything happens for a reason and the universe unfolds as it should. The Jedi, i think, are not suppossed to "create" a peace and harmony according to their personal view. They are just to keep the order of the natural universe while protecting and doing what is formally right. The only time they are to change anything or intervene is as long as it is for the great good.

I dont think the Jedi code is about eliminating emotion all together, but to not let emotion take control of you. This is so that one can achieve their objectives without any outside variables clouding the way. Not allowing emotion to get in the way doesn't mean that the Jedi do not care for anything, it just means being focused on the tasks at hand and getting it done. Remember the scene in episode II where Padme just got knocked out of the transporter and Obi-Wan was telling Anakin to not worry because she could take care of herself. Its not that Obi-Wan is a heartless bahstid, he knew she wasn't dead and he realizes he and Anakin have a much bigger responsibility, which was to take out Sauromon--i mean Count Dracula-- I mean Count Dooku (hehehe). Its all about seeing the bigger picture, not personal problems.

You're not really free when you're at the top of the ladder (that is, if you're responsible about it). To quote Spiderman, "with great power comes great responsibility". When you're the head of a corporation or a team or whatever, that means you're in charge of everything. You are to make sure everything runs smoothly and everyone is doing their job. If something goes wrong or if there's a problem, all eyes are on you to either blame you or to get you to fix it. When u're at the head of governmental office, u are suppossed to be a servant to the people, not the other way around. If you're in office and you think you can do whatever you want, guess again. This is how tyrants are born *cough*Bushagain*cough*.

After my sociology class this year, I've come to the conclusion that capitalism really sucks. It's all about making money for the sake of more money. The only time its really about competition is if it makes you more money. Its senseless and cyclical. Its a system that traps people in the belief that the amount of money you have defines you. The race to create the next best thing has created a market of thousands and thousands of junk products. Its all just clutter. And the next product or item or image that tries to make a break through the clutter to get your attention just becomes more clutter as time goes on. I'm not saying that the pursuit of the next best thing is inherently evil, but when u stop to look around, dont you think we're all being smothered by all this "stuff"? The capatilist system doesn't care about you, it cares about your money.

[Tassatul]

Everything happens for a reason and the universe unfolds as it should. The Jedi, i think, are not suppossed to "create" a peace and harmony according to their personal view. They are just to keep the order of the natural universe while protecting and doing what is formally right.

But if the universe unfolds as it should, is there any real reason for the Jedi? Wouldnt they just be obscuring whatever plans the universe has?

I dont think the Jedi code is about eliminating emotion all together, but to not let emotion take control of you.

I dunno, the second line says "There is no emotion." Seems pretty straightforward to me. Also, the Sith dont necessarily let emotion control them. They use the emotion to their advantage. The most common would be anger. Maybe I'm a different type of person, but I'll lay out an example of how it works for me. Lets say I'm in a wrestling match. We're wrestling, but I'm not feeling any emotion. With no emotion, I cant really care about winning the match. Pin or pinned, it doesnt matter to me. On the other hand, lets say my opponent manages to elbow me in the face on purpose, but the ref doesnt catch it. I'm pissed. I'm going to attack harder and be more brutal in my moves from that point on because I want to beat him, and prove my dominance. This is definately going to increase my chances of winning. As long as I dont become totally enthralled in my anger and punch him back, im good to go.

I think youre more free at the top then being at the bottom. I'd rather be the plantation owner than the slave, or the CEO than the cubicle worker. Maybe youre not totally free, but I'm thinking thats tough to do in this world in any case.

I've heard the anti-capitalism rhetoric before, but it doesnt impress me. Present another option? Untill something better comes along, capitalism works for me.


Also, ive been accepted to the Oneonta State wrestling team. College level athletics, biatches!