What's the best RPG?

[247gamer]

Fuh fuh fuh fuh fuh

[mysticdruid]

Dingle dongle I like pong!?

[Cobra5]

Nice try, but no.

[Deimos]

hah...I can actually comment on this with fair insight...let's see...I've got multiple answers depending on genre and place of development

i'll start here...honestly I don't play many American/Western RPGs....because I prefer slightly more linear, story and character driven games where I don't need to worry about manipulating the outcome (seeing as I'll tend to lose motivation over time if I have to worry about carrying the story entirely on my own...which is why i've never to this day finished a GTA...), that being...

my vote rests with The Elder Scrolls (Morrowind, and the last one to come out recently that I can't remember its name). Mostly because I believe it fills out the Western RPG card very thoroughly...there's an over-arcing story, but you don't have to necessarily follow it, you form your character as you see fit in every sense of the word (the one thing about Western RPGs I enjoy), and despite what I call hackneyed battling, I found enjoyable enough.
-I could comment on MMORPGs...but I don't play them, I have no real desire to share my role-playing experience, I play my RPGs alone.

now.....then comes JRPGs...which many have called non-rpgs or, as I like to more creatively call them storybook games seeing as you're essentially a character in a story that has a specific goal in mind for you- wherein the test lies as to whether or not the game can make you care enough to follow through (I prefer this...and there have been many that fail to make me care...). That being...

my vote is split in two ways - action adventure and regular...
the acition adventure title goes to Okami...its visually striking, carries a heartfelt message, and for all its parts that make it a Zelda-clone, it does certain things better than the original.

the regular style JRPG title for me, goes to Wild Arms 5...its got all the classic stuff, found in Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, but serves it up in a very Japanese manner in a uniquely Western setting, containing a fun- high speed battle system, and some of the best music out there on a JRPG- I played that game non-stop from the moment I bought it to the moment I beat it.

overall winner in my book- Wild Arms 5 (i'd use Okami...but I really wanted to stick to a more recognizable rpg-style game, since some do not consider Okami or Zelda to be RPGs in the first place...)

other honorable mentions-
1)best progressive JRPG (by progressive, I mean forward thinking) - Final Fantasy XII (its online-rpg style battle system turned me off honestly...but it still gets this title on an overall note)

2)best Western RPG in general - A tie between World of Warcraft, never played it...but its worldwide status as the current holder of "game with most avid followers..." earns this- and Mass Effect, I felt that it made many great steps forward in the Western side of RPGs.

3)best super-simplified RPG - Pokemon..it doesn't get any simpler than Pokemon...and I think that's why its seemingly immortal and holds the title for "world's best selling RPG overall"

4)best MMORPG - World of Warcraft strikes another one here in my book...
5)best tactical RPG - Final Fantasy Tactics, hands down -the original and the remake, was the most amazing combination of in-depth strategy, party management, and political lunacy yet produced.

6)most influential RPG - ...i'm gonna hate myself for saying this...FFVII, I maintain this if only because RPGs hit mainstream culture only AFTER this game landed...check the sales records of RPGs as a genre pre-VII and post VII and you'll see what I mean...

[Cobra5]

Mass effect was an amazing game. I was truly blown away by it. If I recommend it to anyone though, honestly, skip the side=quests. Just don't do them, they suck. That'll cut a fair amount of time from your overall playthrough, which isn't a good thing in my opinion, but you'll walk away with a much more robust experience overall. The sidequests suck, but the main story is dynamite and does an amazing job of immersion. Its the first game I REALLY felt had a good story in which I was a character. Normally, that's mutually exclusive: A good story OR a personal character I created, that I feel part of.

Baldur's Gate 2 HAS to be played if you have even a passing interest in Western RPGs, and the ability to get a copy of it. This is "Open ended story" done right... in that the "open-ended" part of the story is mostly an illusion, a good one that makes you feel that you're advancing the plot by your own ways, but in actuality is fairly linear. Immediately after the tutorial dungeon, you are plunged into a true open-ended segment of the game where you must raise a great sum of money by exploring and doing side quests, and this is also when you collect who will become your permanent party. After that its a linear, and well-told story of the main character, who you create.

That is the biggest flaw I see in modern Western RPGs. Oblivion proved to me that a very very big game can feel very very empty. I spent my time creating a character who, I never see, and never feel actually plays any part in anything. People look at me and talk to me the same regardless of what I wear, do, look like, etc. On top of that, the main story held no interest for me, and the rest of the world just felt "sparse". Pretty, yes, not sparse in that respect, but sparse for actual things to do. Plenty of repetitive dungeons to raid but... I'd just play diablo for that.

But the biggest flaw is lack of character which I strongly hate. I never feel attached to my dude, I never feel that I'm part of the world. That's why overall I'd say I like jRPGs, but I really, really hate where they've gone artistically. I'd say final fantasy is leading that charge, but its across all of the jRPGs I've seen. Everything is so outlandish, so ornamental, so... "wing"-y. I can't really describe it, but take a look at FFX, compared to FFVII or FFVI, and you'll have an idea of what I mean. Or even in the Wild Arms series, same idea.

The stories are moving away from what I like, too. I haven't seen a bad-ass main character in a long time. They all seem to be either fiery little kids who bite off more then they can chew, or sensitive little cry babies who have someone important taken from them... All of that though, the art direction and story direction, that's all opinion. Its my personal taste and quality wise, I guess I don't really have much negative to say about them.

Anyway, that's enough of a rant for now I guess. I'm disappointed with the RPG industry right now. Mass Effect is the only good one I've played, and that's only if you cut out the side quests, which someone shouldn't really have to do (especially in a wRPG which is supposed to be open ended). Besides that I've felt that Western RPGs are empty and bland, while jRPGs are silly and annoying.

[Deimos]

Ah good arguments.

I for one will agree with most of them actually- in particular with the Western RPG snag of big and open = big and empty. If I there was any one thing outside losing motivation over time without a coherent story to drive me- it was a lack of life.
I would assume though that that's the trade off you have to make when making a world so vast and huge...that your engine can't support running all that beautiful scenery on top off generating top-notch character models...without some ridiculous slow-down, or some other trick to mask the illusion (invisible walls in what seem like huge cities anyone?).

Now with JRPGs...the snag there I guess would very well be a issue of personal taste over anything else. Especially now more than ever, that JRPGs are really starting to ride on the "become like an anime" bandwagon- I mean, look at all the latest efforts- most won't be mentioned without saying somewhere that "it looks just like a high-end anime." But I personally enjoy that- my love of anime and shonen style storytelling of a young boy out to save the world through a series of mishaps is something I can play over and over- but like you said, that's a personal preference (however, the sad over emotional leads drive me insane, give me high energy over drama anyday). Which is amusing since Square-Enix seems to have caught on to this, and with the release of their next big RPG, for the American release, the lead character is a big, older, gruffer, meaner, and generally more "bad-ass" type character where in Japan, the lead is the young lad with a sword in the tradition of RPGs of yonder (i'd rather be able to choose...but...oh well, cuz' I like the kid).

So there it is I guess...

[daft alchemist]

Wall of text crits you for 10,000 damage and you die.

Seriously, you guys write a lot.

[Deimos]

well I can say that much because honestly, if there's any one topic I can jump on, its RPGs - ESPECIALLY JRPGs. I frequent RPGamer, RPGfan, and RPG-O-MANIA on a regular...if not almost every-day basis, and JRPGs make up very literally 93% of my gaming library. They're the games I love playing most (second only to Sonic games....) and know more of about than any other genre...so, I can actually comment. Whereas usually, i'll be honest here, I can't because the games in conversation are games I don't play. This on the other hand...well...you already know

JRPGs fo' life! XD

[Cobra5]

I want a good JRPG, in my style. I know its a long way away. People... well, JRPG fans, really like the style of the RPGs coming out, so I see it staying that way for the foreseeable future. I do think its better to cater to fans, instead of spread out too far.

Maybe I'll have to pick up one of them anachronistic WWII Strat RPGS... see if those are any good. What am I thinking of... something like, Valkria Chronicles, and Project Darkness, I think they were called.

Do love myself a good strat RPG. Still hoping for one of the PS2 or DS Super Robot Wars to be translated...

Oh well. I'm absorbed in Devil May Cry 4 at the moment. What a game!

[BugHunter]

Heya guys. Yo Will, I still have your copy of FFX and finally got to playing in the past few weeks. Although the story got a little crazy near the end and Blitzball sucked in the beginning and I wished Rikku kept that skin-tight leather strap outfit, it was rather entertaining. What I really enjoyed was the battle system with the character switching ability.

By the way, I started playing it after I got a taste of Armored Core: The Last Raven. And I know how much u love AC, but this was a bad match for me as this entry in the series is for hardcore fans and this was my first time owning a copy. I loved the customization but the immense list of choices they give you in the beginning plus lack of tutorial is just overwhelming. I'd still get creamed after spending hours customizing a mech and the levels were pretty bland back then. I didn't need the headache and returned it to the store. On the bright side, the new AC for the 360 or PS3 kicks the crap out this old one and plays soo much better.

Anyway, after facing the stat heavy Armored Core, seeing FFX's simplified menus and item management was a great relief and allowed me to slide through the story without worrying about details. I thought the graphics were great and the animation on Tidus fantastic. But yes, I do agree that the fashion is kinda weird. Oh and I'm at the point where I win every Blitzball match.

When it comes to rpgs and games for me, gameplay mechanics are king, which is why I love tactics games. I definitely love the Advance Wars series. But the one thing that always itched me were some of the characters that appeared in Dual Strike. I never thought it made sense that kids would be in charge of armies and it always turns me off when their personalities were like, "We just massacred an entire platoon of soldiers, let's grab a soda, yea!" *high five*. I'm sorry, but they gotta be completely psychotic to have a bright disposition like that while blood and burnt corpses are everywhere. There was also that one kid who kept using street talk which didn't help. But all this is why I freakin loved Days Of Ruin which had a much darker tone and more mature view on war. I really got into the story and the desperation of the characters and if any of them died, it was deep.

And while we're on the subject of tactics RPGs, has anyone else seen Disgaea in action? I was watching a friend play it all last semester and it's freakin ridiculous and I'm not so sure in a good way. Basically, and my personal impression is, that it's FF:Tactics pepped up on crystal meth and acid. There are some situations in that game that is sooooo freakin ridiculous I tell ya! Like entire rooms where every square has a monster, or every square makes everyone invincible except one square, and the amount of damage you can deliver makes my eyes bleed! I'm not even sure what the damage cap is, but I've seen damage reach several million points! Level caps are somewhere in the hundreds, I don’t even know. I could never have enough time to get anywhere near max levels. It was obviously built for Koreans… Oh and it also has those pompous warrior children characters that I don't care much for.

Now that I beat FFX, after I complete whatever extra quests are in it, I'm contemplating whether to move onto the original Mario RPG, Earthbound, or goin back to Diablo II in prep for when III comes out. Starcraft is always a constant on my desktop.

[Cobra5]

Your sentiments reflect mine almost exactly on FFX. The story, especially in the end, the outfits... hmm... but the animation, and the simple but fun battle system was excellent. Character switching was an amazing add. One thing I always though was silly in other RPGs you'd go and fight the evil man who'd ascended to godhood to destroy the world and recreate in his image... with three people. The rest get to sit at home and hope for the best. I felt this way with Mass Effect, too.

As for Armored core, yeah. Last Raven especially, was second only to Nine Breaker, in its ridiculousness. But AC4 is, like you said, a much better starting point. All in all, honestly, its hard to recommend the games to anyone who isn't already interested... compared to other modern games, the controls are needlessly difficult, the robots overly complex, and the levels repetitive and bland, with a suicidal learning curve (or learning wall, depending on which game).

I heartily recommend Devil May Cry 4 to everyone with the ability to play it. not exactly an RPG, but its stylish, its pretty, its fun, and its rewarding. It doesn't have as much extras as the other games... no unlockable characters (Not even any unlockable costumes), and Nero's backstory isn't full explained, so you're just left guessing, since he outrightly defies the established storyline. but the simple fact is its fun. It has a difficulty mode just for people who haven't played DMC, but I bet its still really hard for new players. As for the storyline it takes place third chronologically, but its not a bad starting point. Everything you need to know is explained or implied in the game, though you would miss out on some neat things (like Nelo Angelo's theme playing when Yamato reforms, badass).

Other then that I haven't been into much gaming recently. Still need to invest in a 360, but Wii just sits here collecting dust, and the next big-name PC games are a ways off yet.

[daft alchemist]

So is it a real "ultimate fucking pussy mode" or is it just Easy mode, because we already know Easy mode is still super hard for anyone just picking up the game.

[BugHunter]

My bro and I are definitely thinking about investing in a 360 in the near future. But I still need a job.

[Deimos]

Aug 6, 2008 3:23:09 GMT -5 BugHunter said:

Heya guys. Yo Will, I still have your copy of FFX and finally got to playing in the past few weeks. Although the story got a little crazy near the end and Blitzball sucked in the beginning and I wished Rikku kept that skin-tight leather strap outfit, it was rather entertaining. What I really enjoyed was the battle system with the character switching ability.

By the way, I started playing it after I got a taste of Armored Core: The Last Raven. And I know how much u love AC, but this was a bad match for me as this entry in the series is for hardcore fans and this was my first time owning a copy. I loved the customization but the immense list of choices they give you in the beginning plus lack of tutorial is just overwhelming. I'd still get creamed after spending hours customizing a mech and the levels were pretty bland back then. I didn't need the headache and returned it to the store. On the bright side, the new AC for the 360 or PS3 kicks the crap out this old one and plays soo much better.

Anyway, after facing the stat heavy Armored Core, seeing FFX's simplified menus and item management was a great relief and allowed me to slide through the story without worrying about details. I thought the graphics were great and the animation on Tidus fantastic. But yes, I do agree that the fashion is kinda weird. Oh and I'm at the point where I win every Blitzball match.

When it comes to rpgs and games for me, gameplay mechanics are king, which is why I love tactics games. I definitely love the Advance Wars series. But the one thing that always itched me were some of the characters that appeared in Dual Strike. I never thought it made sense that kids would be in charge of armies and it always turns me off when their personalities were like, "We just massacred an entire platoon of soldiers, let's grab a soda, yea!" *high five*. I'm sorry, but they gotta be completely psychotic to have a bright disposition like that while blood and burnt corpses are everywhere. There was also that one kid who kept using street talk which didn't help. But all this is why I freakin loved Days Of Ruin which had a much darker tone and more mature view on war. I really got into the story and the desperation of the characters and if any of them died, it was deep.

And while we're on the subject of tactics RPGs, has anyone else seen Disgaea in action? I was watching a friend play it all last semester and it's freakin ridiculous and I'm not so sure in a good way. Basically, and my personal impression is, that it's FF:Tactics pepped up on crystal meth and acid. There are some situations in that game that is sooooo freakin ridiculous I tell ya! Like entire rooms where every square has a monster, or every square makes everyone invincible except one square, and the amount of damage you can deliver makes my eyes bleed! I'm not even sure what the damage cap is, but I've seen damage reach several million points! Level caps are somewhere in the hundreds, I don’t even know. I could never have enough time to get anywhere near max levels. It was obviously built for Koreans… Oh and it also has those pompous warrior children characters that I don't care much for.

Now that I beat FFX, after I complete whatever extra quests are in it, I'm contemplating whether to move onto the original Mario RPG, Earthbound, or goin back to Diablo II in prep for when III comes out. Starcraft is always a constant on my desktop.

Ah that point where you spoke of Advance Wars and Disgaea are exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned RPGs coming out of Japan being increasingly more Japanese...which involves kid heroes and some manic lunacy. All things I enjoy very deeply...of course, I am also very used to the idea of having kids on the battlefield blowing shit up and killing things...and having a festival afterwards, but that's me, I have number of JRPGs featuring kids in war...NOT to mention the anime that involves said theme...

That's where the Disgaea series makes its market and does it spectacularly. NIS - the company that produces Disgaea and a number of recent what I like to call "neo-Strat-JRPGs" KNOWS it produces its games for a select market. If you like them, you LOVE them...if you don't...well you won't. I love them personally- because of how Japanese in mechanics they are...and the level of strategy involved is ridiculous for certain scenarios, I definitely enjoy the fact that in all NIS Strat-JRPGs...the edge of the map IS the edge of the map- you can throw people off the plane of existence and that you can level to level 9999 and weapons have levels IN levels. Not to mention, the crazy kids are what sells it. What other Strat-JRPG has you playing as the son of the lord of Hell trying to take his throne after falling asleep for a few hundred years (I based a comic on that same idea...a child demon wreaks havoc in Hell to take it over...then proceeds to wreak havoc on Earth and Heaven in a three part campaign...all in the body of a twelve year old)....Its the humor that adds to the atmosphere. But of course...that's me, and I'm an open supporter NIS's niche RPGs...especially Disgaea (I have a pin of the lead female character on my hat...).

[BugHunter]

When it comes to Disgaea, I'm more in shock by the insane mechanics and its leveling and hitpoint numbers that don't seem to stop than the kid characters. I then introduced my friend to the original FF:Tactics and even though it's challenging as well, he could really appreciate how more (a lot more) simplified it is. Where in Disgaea you get a million and one things to keep track of, FF:Tactics just gives you a set amount of stuff and send you off.

If kids are main characters in an rpg, the only things that could salvage the experience for me is if the storyline is good and if their personalities are tolerable. If the entire world around these characters matches with them, then wuts to complain about? But if their personalities are of whiny little children, then ugh, I can't stand that. Unless the storyline actually entices me to see what happens to them.

I've been drifting away a lot from Japanese culture, at least the newer cultures of bright, poppy glitter and whatnot. They're just too freakin weird for me. I guess I dig classics more. And sorry to anyone who likes it, but I'm not a fan of Jpop music either =P