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Post by BugHunter on May 11, 2006 22:11:31 GMT -5
Well hey, you guys brought up questions and concerns, I merely answered them with as much Godly guidance that I could.
And yeah, i gotta get my room packed up tonight, i'm moving tomorrow morning... So i probably wont be online for a bit.
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Post by copyKatt on May 11, 2006 22:20:24 GMT -5
well, ill take her spot then. alright, now heres my tidbit. from what i gleaned, religion and spirituality is about forging a relationship with god. denouncing your sins and accepting him as the right and righteous. thats all well and good, but what does this have to say about the individual? the person themselves? you mentioned above that hell would be the complete separation of god, and everyone else for that matter. you live it alone. then in this case, wouldnt it be safe to say that there are people in this world who live in this hell every day of their lives? atheists in particular. take me for example, everyone here basically knows im an atheist. (this being said, never once have i tried to convert anyone, i just like open debate. i actually have a lot of respect for people who can devote themselves to their religon, mostly becuase they have something i never will, faith. but thats another story) the biggest reason for this is the fact is that ive been through alot... a hell of alot. trials, obstacles, whatever you may call it, but i never, personally, turned to god for help or salvation. it may have been a possibility in my time of trouble, but i never did. and here i am, still breathing, still doing well for myself, content with my life, happy with who i am, and strong. I always trust and rely on myself in times of trouble, because there no one else i can trust more, as far as im concerned. ive never turned to god and im not suffering. that being said why is it that you beleive i must also have god's acceptance? why is it so black and white? beleive or suffer eternal damnation. The Bible says that our good works are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6). It isn't saying that we might not try to be good. It is saying that whatever good we do, it is not good enough. It also says that there is none who does good (Rom. 3:12). The standard God seeks is perfection. We cannot please God on our own. That is why Jesus died on behalf of sinners. If you want to be good enough, then you must let God see you through the righteousness of Jesus Christ. That is the only goodness that counts to God. why must i please god to be happy? why must i strive to be perfect in the end? i dont expect that of myself. like you said, no one can be perfect. i love who i am without seeking the acceptance of God. and you guys dont hate me either, so i guess i have friends  . i have people around me that love me and i lead a content life becuase im making the best of what im put up with. and as far as im concerned, thats my doing. im the one thats been pushing myself, working hard everyday of my life, and coping with aspects of myself and my personality on my own. i know that saying this is commiting a sin of pride, but why should all my hard work be attributed to god? I never turned to him for help. but im still expected to accept him? i suppose the reason that i dont beleive, is becuase i never really felt the need to. ive fought through quite alot in my life, and im not suffering now. ill handle it on my own, as i have for the past 18 years. is independance really a sin? am i going to burn in hell for beleiveing in myself and not turning to god to give me the answers to all of life's riddles? im not suffering. |
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Post by copyKatt on May 11, 2006 22:22:04 GMT -5
haha, oh... whoops... i was writing as bughunter posted that. well, no rush man. do what you gotta do.
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Post by BugHunter on May 11, 2006 22:35:50 GMT -5
Ya thanks... I'm booked for the night, but I'll get back to that. My morning is gonna be really rough. But I'll leave you with this - I'm just a messenger. Its not up to me to decide for you what you think is right or wrong. Thats between you and God. But, if I really am a friend to you all, I would be damned if I didn't share all this information that I feel is very important. and until i come back, you really should check out this page from the website called Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM). www.carm.org/objections.htm |
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Post by daft alchemist on May 11, 2006 22:44:23 GMT -5
For the record, I'd like to point out that, while I do not follow any religion, I do have spirituality. Just not in the way most people might. I believe in life and the world and the goodness in people. That's what I believe in. I believe in karma (what comes around goes around), and I believe that there is good in everyone no matter what they've done...except maybe sociopaths...but that's different. Also, I'm not an atheist, just in case you guys thought I was. I'm agnostic, and yes there is a difference.  Meanwhile, I also never looked to God for guidance. All the years I felt horrible from dawn to dusk, I never looked to him once. In fact, it got to the point where I would challenge him in a sense. I guess maybe I thought he didn't care when I was a kid, I certainly can't remember. But I would get an attitude like "You don't want to help me? Fine. Screw you. I'll do fine all on my own; you'll see." And now the person I look to for guidance the most is, surprise surprise, my psychologist. If anything, I'd consider to be all the godly help I should have been receiving all those years compressed into one person. She made such a difference in my life and I'm so thankful that I was assigned to her. She knows exactly how to motivate me and she can tell when I'm not saying all of what I'm thinking. She's the only person who, I feel, really notices all of the crap I have to put up with every day, and that it is overwhelming for me. But don't let all that fool you. I still love playing devil's advocate, which is sort of a pun in this respect...but just ignore that. |
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Post by Tassatul on May 12, 2006 0:07:02 GMT -5
gogo Cass. Yep, thats all I can think up right now.
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Post by Cobra5 on May 12, 2006 11:39:41 GMT -5
For the record, I'd like to point out that, while I do not follow any religion, I do have spirituality. Just not in the way most people might. I believe in life and the world and the goodness in people. That's what I believe in. I believe in karma (what comes around goes around), and I believe that there is good in everyone no matter what they've done...except maybe sociopaths...but that's different. Also, I'm not an atheist, just in case you guys thought I was. I'm agnostic, and yes there is a difference. Meanwhile, I also never looked to God for guidance. All the years I felt horrible from dawn to dusk, I never looked to him once. In fact, it got to the point where I would challenge him in a sense. I guess maybe I thought he didn't care when I was a kid, I certainly can't remember. But I would get an attitude like "You don't want to help me? Fine. Screw you. I'll do fine all on my own; you'll see." And now the person I look to for guidance the most is, surprise surprise, my psychologist. If anything, I'd consider to be all the godly help I should have been receiving all those years compressed into one person. She made such a difference in my life and I'm so thankful that I was assigned to her. She knows exactly how to motivate me and she can tell when I'm not saying all of what I'm thinking. She's the only person who, I feel, really notices all of the crap I have to put up with every day, and that it is overwhelming for me. But don't let all that fool you. I still love playing devil's advocate, which is sort of a pun in this respect...but just ignore that. Cirtainly not to compare myself to God, in any way, but I wouldn't want to help someone with that oppinion I don't think And hey, you're saying so lucky that you found your psychologist, Perhaps that was the help that was sent to you? The ability to find the right person on this Earth, among all of those out there. Just food for thought, I guess. This following little bit applied ot Cass as well, I'd say. In my personal belief, somethign I guess I don't talk about much, but I feel that God plays a part without us knowing it. Even in atheists. Its my personal belief, and I don't know how relegion feels about this (But whatev...) that you don't have to have any belief in God to be deserving of his kindness. That if you are a good person, he will help you, even if you don't turn to him. Perhaps to this person, God will appear as fate, or simple luck, or karma, or maybe not noticably at all. I guess something like, if someone turns to God for help, he'll help them. And if a person wants only help form themselves, God will give them whatever tools they need to do it. All that matters is the will to be good, as far as my beliefs go. If you believe in God or not, if you want and try to be a good person, you will recieve whatever help you need. |
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Post by daft alchemist on May 12, 2006 13:20:57 GMT -5
Talking about religion is starting to get depressing...  |
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Post by Cobra5 on May 12, 2006 14:33:16 GMT -5
Talking about religion is starting to get depressing... Stop reading this, please. |
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Post by daft alchemist on May 13, 2006 0:21:47 GMT -5
 Sorry. I'll stay out of the thread then.
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Post by Cobra5 on May 14, 2006 15:55:05 GMT -5
Why so angry? You said you wouldn't be participating anymore and that everyone else could continue, anyway.
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Post by BugHunter on May 16, 2006 2:07:25 GMT -5
Wheeeee!! I'm finally back! Although I've only gotten half of my stuff sorted out in my room, everything is a-ok!! (^_^)
Well said Will. The Bible may word it a bit differently, but this is basically the right idea. No matter what anyone believes, God is basically in control of anything and everything. Thats the thing about being the ultimate, Ultimate power. No matter what happens, everything happens for a reason and according to His will, in the long run and in the big picture. And He deals with each and every person accordingly for He knows exactly what is inside each and every person. He knows every single thing that has happened to you because He is the one who sent it your way, but it was all for a reason. The reason may not be obvious at the moment, but for one thing, every one of your experiences has shaped the way you are, ya? And God would never send anything hat He knew you couldn't handle.
Just remember that the end result that He wants for us is the salvation of our souls, not damnation. And this entails not just of being good, but by being completely purged of all sin which is only through the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. How can any of that be depressing? Its the greatest thing in the universe! (^_^)
And please, dont just take my word for it. The Lord promotes inquisitive minds, I mean, He made them. Investigate the truth. Do some reading. Research what God's word really is and not what pop culture is trying to force feed us.
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Post by Tassatul on May 16, 2006 16:01:57 GMT -5
The Lord promotes inquisitive minds, I mean, He made them. I'm going to have to disagree on that part Maybe he thinks inquisitive minds are good in some places (medical research, etc) but certainly not when concerned with religion. Especially when the main focus is "believe without question or you can go to hell (literally!)" I think being threatened with eternal damnation could make just about anyone stop asking questions. But is that the right way to go about getting followers, by threats and punishment? |
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Post by BugHunter on May 17, 2006 1:47:02 GMT -5
Jesus never said such a thing. That is a very false view on faith, to accept blindly without question. Whoever told you such a thing is a liar. The Scriptures teach us to learn the facts and to be very responsible in our decisions and to think critically. I mean seriously, is the Lord's word not easily accessable to every simple man today? Every person has access to the Bible, hallelujah! The very first book to be copied by the first movable type (which ushered in the age of mass produced books) was the Bible. Whole copies are even hosted online. To say that you had no way of finding out if that preacher so-and-so was speaking the truth or not is a very poor excuse. You have THE BOOK right in front of you. Time to start studying. If you go to Hell, u'll have no one to blame but yourself.
This is why you gotta screw religion, especially religions that say dont read the scripture cus u wont be able to understand it. Those are nothing but false churches and they are not of God. God wants you to know the Truth because it is the Truth that shall set you free , amen! And the best part is, He gives us all the tools we need to discover everything He wants us to know. You just gotta get out there and investigate.
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Post by Tassatul on May 18, 2006 15:57:01 GMT -5
Perhaps I mispoke, or misheard. You'll agree that god (or whoever) says one can only be saved if they believe in god fully and accept him, etc? But he also promotes inquisitiveness (inquisitivity? lol) you say. Isn't that like saying "Feel free to deliberate and question all you want, but I'm still right." Maybe I should take it differently because hes a god, but that kind of attitude generally doesnt set well with me. Just a friendly reminder, despite what it looks like ( ) I'm not purposely attacking anyone's beliefs, and I hope everyone else feels the same. |
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. i have people around me that love me and i lead a content life becuase im making the best of what im put up with. and as far as im concerned, thats my doing. im the one thats been pushing myself, working hard everyday of my life, and coping with aspects of myself and my personality on my own. i know that saying this is commiting a sin of pride, but why should all my hard work be attributed to god? I never turned to him for help. but im still expected to accept him?
Sorry. I'll stay out of the thread then.