Nomic (OOC/Proposals thread)

[Aikanaro]

Well, having being faced by apathy at one forum, I decided to try elsewhere.

Before you get turned off by the absolutely terribly boring and waffly style of the author: Nomic is a system where the rules are created and voted upon by players as the game progresses. It's not intended to be played as an RPG, but by its nature of being self-amendable, it's perfect for it. It's also perfectly suited to PBP style gaming and takes advantage of that. Assuming a coherent system develops with the game it should be one that's suited to what the IC part is doing and what people need to do OOC (so, should be able to deal with time constraints and the other problems of PBP games)

Though this place seems primarily focused on freeform - well, here the rules only suck as much as you make them, so what does it matter?

The game would consist of at least two threads - one for IC stuff and one for OOC proposals about the rules and voting (maybe a third one to keep an updated account of the rules).

So, without any further ado, I present to you the far less exciting-sounding version of Nomic (and uh - that's a link. Strange that you have links the same colour as normal text...) - you might as well just skim read most of it as it really isn't important - unless you enjoy being driven insane by the babblings of a philosopher...

If there's any interest I'll go into what setting I think would be ideal.

... So, anyone interested? ;D

[Fargo Squire]

I'm not an acronym whiz, so you'll have to help me. What's PBP?

And otherwise, it sounds interesting. You said "rules are created and voted upon by players as the game progresses", but as far as I can tell, changing the rules is the game. Do you mean that we have an RPG running, and on the side we have a Nomic rule system so that anything that ends up being bad, or that we forsee turning sour, can be fixed?

[Coral]

Fargo, PBP most likely is Play-By-Post.

As for the RPG, it sounds interesting. Hopefully it'll get RP going again, but now I have to ask you:

What is the RPG's premise? Like, its story and stuff?

[copyKatt]

well, im up for anything that will get these lazy people's creative juices pumping again (i know, i know, im as guilty as the rest of you...). tell us more, im sure you get a couple people to play.

[Aikanaro]

And otherwise, it sounds interesting. You said "rules are created and voted upon by players as the game progresses", but as far as I can tell, changing the rules is the game. Do you mean that we have an RPG running, and on the side we have a Nomic rule system so that anything that ends up being bad, or that we forsee turning sour, can be fixed?

Generally in Nomic games, yeah - changing the rules is the game. But the 'system' is so flexible that it can be used for pretty much any game. Some people have done Nomic chess, Nomic Risk, Nomic Monopoly - so using it to dictate the ruleset of an RPG should be easy. It's not really just having the RPG running on the side and fixing up problems - but creating a fully integrated system as the game goes on which makes the game better. Making the system work for the game.

And PBP does = Play By Post

What is the RPG's premise? Like, its story and stuff?

My idea for a setting is cyberprep (which is essentially a nearish future world with a heap of technology (not stuff such as easy space travel or anything), but life is essentially good. It's the flip side of cyberpunk) - I think it would be interesting to especially focus on the virtual reality side of things (which makes it flexible - after all, what can't you do in virtual reality internet? )

As for what the story will actually be ... well, I don't know Let's discover as we play, hmm? My opening post should have a general focus as to where it's going (so, people should have an idea as to what they should be doing) - but I don't have a set story in advance. If it means anything to you, I'm the narrativist sort (and if it doesn't: www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html explains (if you're incredibly bored or have a lot of time). Think along the lines of having players forced into making moral choices about the nature of their character and such, as opposed to exploring the setting or meeting challenges).

And uh - I think I'll wait for someone else to respond (positively, that is ) before starting (yay for insecure n00bishness).

[Fargo Squire]

I'm all for it. Unfortunately, I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for Myrtle Beach, and I won't be back until July 2nd. I'll see what's come of it when I get back, I suppose.

[Coral]

Sounds like a great RPG. It might actually be one I like! So long as I'm dictator of some powerful country =D

[Aikanaro]

Alrighty - let's get started then. In an effort to stick with the more annoying rules until such a time that we can repeal them - my surname starts with 'D' (rule 201). As soon as you say you're playing (and we know what order you're meant to post in adherance to rule 201), then you can vote, RP, ect ect.
Something I'm not sure of - should the taking turns thing refer to the RP as well, or just to rule proposing?

Oh, and nothing stopping you from being the dictator of a powerful country, I suppose

Proposed Repealment of Rule 202:

I propose that we repeal rule 202, which is:

202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score.

In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

This will allow us to speed up the amount of rules being proposed by removing the limit of 'one rules change', and also get rid of the scoring system which we have no need for.

[Coral]

I vote in favor of Item #01 (Proposed Repealment of Rule 202).

[Aikanaro]

Well, seeing that you and me are the only players so far, we'll call that item passed

Propose away

[Jalathas]

I'll join up. I propose amendment of rule 201:

201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points.

In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order by surname.

It should:
a. be limited to rule-changing
b. be in alphabetical order by username
c. state that if a player does not take his rule-changing turn within 3 days, he automatically passes his turn.

[Coral]

I do not agree in favor of Item #002 (Amendment of rule 201).

[Aikanaro]

I recommend changing clause (c) of rule proposal #2 to two days, in order to keep the game from stalling as much as possible.

If you agree, then I vote in favour of the proposal.

[Coral]

According to the rules, the proposal is no longer eligible. Thus, it cannot be voted on anymore because it does not have unanimity.

[Aikanaro]

It seems you're right - looks like that rule amendment will have to be passed after the second circuit is finished...

(And we still don't know the order in which we're meant to be going, because neither of you have posted the first letter of your surnames...)