Writing Thread

[Abishai]

A modern day version of the prodigal son.

[BugHunter]

Tassatul said:

The only thing I dont like is this:

I mean, I get the point, its very important for people to 'come back' to good. But isnt it unfair to those who already are good? Its kinda like how one kid might do a certain chore everyday, without recognition, while a second kid does nothing. One day, the second kid decides to mow the lawn because he felt like helping out. The parents automattically are openly gratful to him, while the first child is like "wtf?"

Thats exactly what the other son said in the story of the Prodigal Son. A big point in that part of the story is to not be jealous. The first son who does the chores, thats all good, and I'm sure the parents are grateful for that. But the other son, I'm sure the parents think he's a lost cause. But because out of nowhere he decides to help out for once, it shouldn't be such a surprise that the parents would be extremely grateful for that single action even though he never did anything before, cus this is like hint of light in a void of hopelessness, says like, hey there is hope for this kid after all. Its all relative.

In the story of the Prodigal Son, the father kind of explained a similar thing to the responsible son who also kind of got jealous at seeing his good for nothing brother back and getting a welcome party.

The good people should be grateful that the one lost person came back and is being praised, not jealous. Its also back to the point of not letting pride get to your head.

[Cobra5]

That's admirable.

I one of those nogoodniks. Who you know, do nothing?

No, I'm not whining. I'm just saying, I'm not in a position to be jealous of anyone, so its a moot argument for me.

[BugHunter]

Actually, I'm glad this whole jealousy stuff came up. I got this whole lesson from my church on Jealously. Its in the series my pastor is currently doing, called "The Battlefield of the Mind." Jealousy was part 10, so accordingly, this series was on its 10 week. My pastor is really great. Here, this is from my notes during that service. I've been waiting for the opportune time to put these up.

The Battlefield of the Mind

Part 10: Overcoming a Jealous Spirit

-- " A heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones" [Proverbs 14:30]
-- -- Envy: Lust for what you don't have
-- -- Jealousy: Feeling of animosity to those who have what you don't have

Definition of a Jealous Spirit
-- "A feeling of anger or bitterness directed toward those who are successful or have what you feel you deserve"

Satan's Lies that come with Jealousy
1. I need to compare myself with others
2. I need to compete with others (for position, rewards, popularity. Not referring to competition involving a test of skills)
-- -- The Christian life is about dying to self and allowing Him to live through us.
3. Others have what I deserve

The Jealous Spirit of Cain
-- This part goes into the story of the two brothers Cain and Abel, the sons of Adam and Eve, and the first murder.
-- [Genesis 4:2-8] "²Next she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground. ³In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, ⁴and Abel for his part brought of the firstlings of his flock, their fat portions (in otherwords the best of the best). And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, ⁵but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. ⁶The Lord said to Cain, 'Why are you angry, and why has your countenence fallen? ⁷If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.' ⁸Cain said to his brother Abel, 'Let us go out to the field.' And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him."

-- he had a Spirit of Pride --> Cain gave an offering out of duty, not devotion. He merely gave only out of his crops, not his best. It does not say if Cain gave his best crops. Abel gave the best lamb out of his flock, the best of the best, for this God gave regard. The Lord of rejected Cain's offering because it wasn't the best of the best. However, God only rejected the offering, not the person. We see that He even went to speak to Cain.

-- he had a Spirit of Comparison --> Why is my brother's offering better than mine?!

-- " " a Spirit of Bitterness

-- " " a Spirit of Hatred --> Cain in his mind makes it Abel's fautl, not his.

You dont have to kill the person to have the Spirit of Cain
"All who hate a brother or sister are murderers" [1 John 3:15]
-- All you need is animosity, or a want to kill them in your mind

Jealousy is venom that destroys relationships
"For jealousy arouses a husband's fury, and he shows no restraint when he takes revenge." [Proverbs 6:34]

To Overcome Jealousy One must Demonstrate...
1. Humility
"But He givves all the more grace; therefore it says, 'God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.' Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" [James 4:6-7]
2. Contentment
"Those conflicts and disputes among you, where do they come from? Do they not come from your cravings that are at war within you? You want something and do not have it; so you commit murder. And you covet something and cannot obtain it; so you engege in disputes and conflicts." [James 4:1-2]
3. Love
"Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children, and live in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God"
4. Gratitude
"But fornication and impurity of any kind, or greed, must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints. Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead let there be thanksgiving."


My pastor does an incredible job, he explains his lessons far better than I can. I can only put down so much in physical writing. And this is directly from my notes on the spot during service. What you miss is his energy and enthusiasm and ferver during service and the way he explains the Lord's word.

[BugHunter]

Hey Dan, maybe you should read this , since you dont think people with faith dont think for themselves. And this is exactly what I mean when I send you guys to read the Bible.



The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion

~~~

Lie #3:

'You are not smart enough or good enough to think for
yourself.  We will do your thinking for you.'

~~~

Dear Francis,

  Do you know what the most important invention in the
history of the world was?

  It wasn't the computer.  And it sure wasn't the light bulb
or the telephone.  (Or even the electronic voting machine.)

  It was the printing press.

  In 1445, Johannes Gutenburg invented the world's first movable
type printing press.  He didn't know it, but he was unleashing a
revolution that continues to this day.  Even the mighty Internet
in 2004 is just an extension of Gutenberg's original,
revolutionary machine.

  The first book he printed was the Bible.  And that led
to controversy, too, because Luther translated it into
German, the people's language, instead of Latin, the
lingo of the religious elite.

   Suddenly, ordinary folks could not only afford a copy,
but they could read it for themselves instead of getting
some guy's self-serving interpretation.  Soon the cat was
out of the bag--there were copies scattered all over Europe.

   When people started to read it, they were alarmed at what
they saw, because between the covers of this book was an
amazing story that had seemingly little to do with the politics
and shell games they saw in the church.

   Luther wrote a list of 95 accusations against the church --
priests taking bribes and granting 'indulgences', the
institution setting itself up as a 'middleman' between
man and God.

   He argued that God didn't need a middleman, or a
distributor, or an agent, or a bureaucracy.  People
could go direct to the source.

   This little 'schism' in Wurms, Germany unleashed a
firestorm of protest and permanently changed the way people
approached education.  No longer was a big, faceless institution
responsible for your spiritual progress -- YOU were.  Now that
you had the knowledge in your hands, you were accountable
before God to do something about it.

   It's no coincidence that the scientific enlightenment and
industrial revolution began within 50 years of this reformation. 
Now that ordinary folks had access to knowledge and the freedom
to pursue it, the possiblities were limitless.

  The printing press took the handcuffs off of knowledge and
spirituality, and the world has never been the same.  Equal
access to knowledge empowered people everywhere, and it
was only natural that the rennaisance, and in time, democracy
too would follow.

   What's troubling now is that most people still don't do anything
with the knowledge that's available to them.  Why would you accept
a 'canned' answer or empty platitude when you can open the book
and read about it for yourself?

  People have debates about Jesus, but most have never read the
real story--they just believe what they're told.  How sad.

   If you want a 'Just the facts ma'am' version of what really
happened, grab a Bible (please -- a modern English version that's
easy to read, not something from the 1600's) and read the book of
Luke.  A truly fascinating story will unfold. 

   I dare you to read for one hour and then stop!

   And you know what?  Nobody will need to tell you what it means. 
You'll be quite able to figure it out for yourself.

  You can download the book of Luke free online by clicking here:

www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/CP03Luke.htm

   Print it out and take it with you.

   Or, you can listen in MP3 by clicking this link:

www.audiotreasure.com/mp3/Luke/Luke.htm

   You might like to burn the MP3 onto a CD and listen to it in
your car.

   Tomorrow I'm going to attack Lie #4:

'Women are spiritually inferior and must submit to the
authority of men.'

   Talk to you tomorrow!

   Respectfully Submitted,

   Perry Marshall

[BugHunter]

are you guys avoiding this thread now? That is so funny . I seem to be missing Lie #4, but I applaud this guy for tackling this statement in Lie#5. A lot of these things are the exact same things my pastor and I have been saying. And Mr. Marshal isnt just talking about Christianity here.





The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion

~~~

Lie #5:

'There is no single truth.  Everyone needs to explore and find
a truth that works for them.'

~~~

Francis,

   This one's a real hot potato.  And it's not something you hear
so much from ancient religious institutions... rather, it's simply
the 'politically correct' way to talk about spirituality these days.

   It tends to be expressed something like this: 'You've got your
truth, and I've got my truth.  You find a faith that works for
you, and I'll find a faith that works for me.'

   Well here's my question:

   How many conflicting versions of the truth can actually be true?

   I'm not going to use this space to promote an agenda today -- or
to push any specific claim of Ultimate Truth.  I'm just going to
highlight a very simple, logical reality that each of us, in our search
for Truth, must recognize.  Pardon me if I offend you, but I'm
going to put it bluntly.

   It's impossible for all religions to be true.

   In other words, if Islam is essentially true, then Buddhism,
Hinduism and Christianity are not.  If Buddhism is essentially true,
then Islam, Christianity and Hinduism are not.  And so on.

   How can I say such a thing?  Because if you *really* study these
religions, it will become clear that each makes bold, fundamental
assertions about reality that are not compatible with the others. 

   For example, Hinduism states that divinity is present in everything.
Christianity, Judaism and Islam all assert that God is distinctly
separate from what he has created.  The implications of these different
views run very deep, and they are fundamentally incompatible.  It's
logically impossible for both views to be true.

   So why bring this up, anyway?

   Well first I have to make a confession.  I would *like* to believe
that all religions could be true.  I would personally *like* to believe
that all paths lead to God.  It feels good.  It's a kinder view of
the world.  It puts everyone on equal footing. 

   But it just doesn't make sense. 

   Truth is, by nature, exclusive.  There are always more wrong
ways to do just about anything than right ways.  There are always
more wrong answers to any given question than right ones. 

   True?

   And you know what?  This really raises the stakes.  It puts a
real sense of urgency in our search for truth, because it shows
that if we're not careful, we can fall for a half-truth.

   On the other hand, if you diligently search, seek
out the facts, and your spiritual journey brings you to
a place where the pieces fit in place - if everything makes
logical sense and it feels right in your heart - then you
should not hesitate to share your joy with others.

   OK... now let's stop right now and make something very clear:

   If we possess the truth, it doesn't give us the right to
be unkind to those who disagree.  It didn't give Bin Laden the
right to declare Jihad, hijack airplanes and fly them into the
World Trade Center.  It didn't give so-called 'Christians' the
right to kill people in the Crusades.  It doesn't give us the
right to be disrespectful or violent.

   What it does give us is the right - and the confidence -
to go out into the marketplace of ideas and *see* if our Truth
stands up to hard scrutiny.

   C.S. Lewis was talking about this very thing when he said,
'You don't need to defend a Lion.  You just need to let him
out of his cage.'

   If you really do have the truth, then you have nothing to fear. 
You don't need to burn books or censor speech.  Truth is its
own best defense.

   In our modern, sophisticated culture, spirituality gets
locked up in a cage.  It's a taboo subject.  Discussions about
religion are not considered 'polite conversation.'  So nobody
talks about it.

   The result?  People don't talk to each other.  They live in
fear and isolation. 

   Some folks harbor ideas and notions that make absolutely no
sense, but because those ideas are never brought out into the
light of day, they're never questioned. 

   Others have great wisdom, but they're afraid to share it with
others! 

   How sad.

   In your search for the truth, then, know that you're not just
looking for something that sounds good.  As with any other kind
of truth, it may *not* feel good all the time.  Know that you're
looking for something definite, something that will by nature
make some pretty bold claims. 

   Also, please understand that if someone tells you they
possess the truth, they're not being arrogant.  Fact is, they're
either sadly deceived or else they're right.  You can't put
someone down for being deceived, and you can't fault someone
for being right! 

   The real challenge is to discern the difference.

   Tomorrow I'm going to cover Lie #6:

'The Bible is out of date, inaccurate and over-rated.  People
in the 21st century are way too smart for that.'

   Thanks for sticking with me.

   Respectfully Submitted,

   Perry Marshall

[Cobra5]

Well, I think its natural not to get many comments. Nobody here is religious...

It's like telling me about how mcuh you love sailor moon or some such

I have been reading the,, though. I'd like to get as much information on all these topics as possible.

[BugHunter]

Well thats all i needed to know, if u guys were reading them or not. I mean, how else am i gonna know?


Thats not the best comparison, comparing this subject to Sailor Moon... I take this seriously, thank you very much...

[Cobra5]

Well then... I guess a better comparison would be "someone talking to me about religion"....

[BugHunter]

Yea, very funny but whatever...

[BugHunter]

Aha! I found Lie #4, it was lying in my delete box by mistake. Oh well, better late than never. Some heavy stuff in this one



The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion

~~~

Lie #4

'Women are spiritually inferior and must bow to the
authority of men.'

~~~

Francis,

  In the religious bureaucracy of the ancient world, women
were basically property.  If she burned his toast, he could
divorce her and send her away destitute.  If she saw a crime
in progress and reported it to the police, her testimony in
court would be thrown out--simply because she was female. 
Women weren't considered smart enough to recount what really
happened.

  Isn't that special?

  Get this.  Jesus gets crucified.  His body is taken down and
put in a guarded tomb.

   Three days later, some of his female friends come to the tomb,
the door is wide open, and nobody's inside.  They're shocked.  But
they're even more shocked when Jesus shows up.  He talks to them. 
These women are the first people to see this astonishing event and
report it.  The men don't believe it until they see for themselves.

   Well here's the kicker:  Had somebody invented this resurrection
story out of thin air, they would *never* have said that women found
the empty tomb--because women in that culture were considered
inferior and unreliable anyway.

   So what this demonstrates is:

1) It's highly unlikely this story is made up, because no person who
invents such a hoax would ever put women in this role.  The fact
that women are the first witnesses to this event strongly suggests
that Jesus DID actually rise from the dead.  A conclusion that
has staggering implications.

2) This also shows that Christianity considers women to be equal
to men.  Jesus had many women in his inner circle, and there were
female leaders and prophetesses in the early church.

   When religion runs amok, it's always in the interest of one of
three things:

   -Money-
   -Sex-
   -Power-

   Don't you agree?

   And what could be more convenient than for selfish men to shove
women around and say it's the will of God?

   You know, the thing about genuine spirituality is that it
isn't used as a weapon to control people.  Yes, Jesus gave
some pretty stern warnings and he talked about some heavy
subjects.  But how often do you see him bossing his followers
around?

   He didn't do that.  Instead, he took off their shoes and washed
their dirty feet to show them how they should serve each other.  His
life and death are the deep irony of God engaged in the
humble service of mankind.

   Tomorrow I'm going to attack Lie #5.  This one may surprise you:

'There is no single truth.  Everyone needs to explore and find a truth
that works for them.'

   Respectfully Submitted,

   Perry Marshall

[BugHunter]

Wow, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. This lesson in the series is really really good. Will, this would be perfect for you. And where the heck is Dan? He better be reading this stuff. I mean, not only am I posting them here, I'm also emailing them to everyone. Coral should also read some of it as well.




The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion

~~~

Lie #6:

'The Bible is out of date, inaccurate and over-rated.  People
in the 21st century are way too smart for that.'

~~~

Francis,

   At first blush this doesn't seem like an 'Organized Religion'
thing.  The reason I include it here is that many large religious
organizations do teach it today.

   Let me ask you something: Don't you think it's a lot easier for a
leader to sneak in his own agenda when there's no outside authority to
compare it to?

   Mortimer Adler, one of the greatest living literary scholars,
spent decades researching a book called 'The Great Ideas.'  He
read every single major piece of literature in Western history,
and his book explores the 102 most influential ideas that have
defined Western culture.

   In the first chapter, he talks about 'The Twentieth Century
Delusion.'  What's that?  It's the fact modern people *think* that
we are more enlightened about all subjects than people were 1000
years ago. 

   Are we more enlightened about science and technology? 

   Yes.

   Are we more enlightened about morality, philosophy and politics?

   Hardly.

   In college I took a class called 'English Authors Before 1800.'
I was amazed at how sharp those writers were.  Once you get past
the 'old English' language, you discover that Shakespeare's
characters are just like the people you talk to every day.

   The book of Proverbs in the Bible was written 3000 years ago,
but its advice has saved my butt many, many times. 

   'A soft answer defuses anger, but harsh words stir up evil.'

   'A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.'

   'The fool hates to be corrected by his father, but a wise son
listens to advice.'

   Are we really wiser in the 21st century than people were thousands
of years ago? 

   Solomon, the author of Proverbs, said 'There is nothing new
under the sun.'  Many people have laughed at that statement.  But he
wasn't talking about technology.  He was talking about the issues of
the human heart.  Malcolm Muggeridge said, 'News is old things
happening to new people.'

   So is the Bible a translation of a translation of a translation? 
Could it be reliable?  Is it worth taking seriously?

   For centuries, the oldest existing copies of the Old Testament
were from 1100 AD.  Because so many prophesies in the O.T. had
come true, many scholars declared that it was written after the
fact. 

   For example, Isaiah described the cruicifixion of Jesus with
remarkable precision, 700 years before it happened.  Daniel
predicted the rise and fall of the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and
Roman empires, in sequence, including remarkable details - in
550 BC. 

   Astonishing stuff.

   The skeptics had the upper hand in this debate until a boy
threw rocks into a cave in the Qumran valley in 1947 and discovered
what are now known as the 'Dead Sea Scrolls.'

   Not only did these scrolls date back to 200BC, proving that these
astonishing predictions were written BEFORE the events took place,
but the text was virtually identical to the later versions.

   Similarly, we have 5,000 ancient manuscripts of the New
Testament, some of them dating back to ~60 A.D.  The text is
unquestionably solid.

   There are plenty of people who say that the Bible is flaky
and full of holes, but honestly, the facts simply don't support
that conclusion.

   Take the 'Gospels' -- same-generation accounts of Jesus' life
in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  There are *no* other events
in ancient history that are documented as well as Jesus' life. 
If we can't believe those history books, how can we believe
any other ones?

   Of course the only reason anybody doubts this stuff is that it talks
about miracles.  Jesus feeds 5000 people with five loaves of bread
and two fishes.  He heals the blind and the lame.  He himself
rises from the dead.

   Can this be believed?  Or was it just a big conspiracy?

   Well, that is THE question. 

   Right?

   Chuck Colson, a former US Government official who went to jail
for his involvement in the Watergate scandal, tells this story:

   “Watergate was a conspiracy to cover up, perpetuated by
the closest aids to the President of the United States.

   But one of them, John Dean, testified against Nixon, to save his
own skin - only two weeks after informing the president about what
was really going on.  Two weeks!

   The real cover-up, the lie, could only be held together for two
weeks, and then everybody else jumped ship in order to save themselves.  What's
more, nobody's life was at stake.'

   Why do I bring this up?  Because conspiracies planned by
big groups of people always fall apart.  Somebody always narks.

   Well in the case of Jesus, eleven disciples were crucified,
tortured, stoned to death and burned to the stake because they
stuck to their story.

   They were all ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that Jesus rose from the dead.

   The historical narrative reports that the first witnesses to the
resurreciton were women.  Given the legal standing of women at
that time, nobody would have written the story that way had it
been made up.

   What do you think?

   Well, you really can't make an informed decision until you read
the story.

   Fortunately there are four versions of that story -- Matthew's,
Mark's, Luke's and John's.  Read one or all and decide for yourself.

   If you don't read the story, you're not in any kind of position
to decide.  Examine the evidence so you can make an educated decision.


   Tomorrow, in the last installment, I'm going to take on #7:

   'If God was really good and powerful, he wouldn't allow so much
evil and suffering to go on.'

   This is a tough question indeed.  Pat answers and platitudes just
won't do.  I promise to handle this one with kid gloves.

   Respectfully Submitted,

   Perry Marshall
   www.CoffeehouseTheology.com

[BugHunter]

The coup de grace. The final email in the series. The question that every normal person asks. Real good stuff




The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion

~~~

Day #7:

   'If God was really powerful and good, he wouldn't allow so much
evil and suffering to go on.'

~~~

Francis,

   This is raised by just about everyone: Priests and ministers,
college students and housewives, butchers, bakers and candlestick
makers. 

   It's one of the hardest questions anybody ever asks. 

   Just a few days ago, a close friend of mine, Laurin, passed
away after a fierce 18 month battle with cancer.  What a horrible
experience this was for him and his wife Diana.

   I've visited the slums of Sao Paulo Brazil, where 500,000
homeless street kids sniff glue and steal for a living.  Sometimes
the police hunt them down and kill them, just to reduce the crime rate. 

   Last year my wife spent a week in Mozambique where she saw an
infant in her mother's arms, dying of pneumonia in a hospital waiting
room.  She met hundreds of other kids with malaria and malnutrition.
We've given some money for a medical clinic, and every bit helps.  But
the problems are so huge, what little you try to do still seems like a
teardrop in the ocean.

   If you took all the parties, the humor, the success and happiness
in the world, and put it side by side with the suffering and pain, the
comparison would be almost absurd. 

   There's a lot of sickness and sadness in this world.

   How can God let it go on?

   Well, I can't give you an answer.  I can only tell you a true story.

~~~

   A certain man threatened the Religious Gestapo, who in
turn convinced the Roman government that He was a threat to
them, too.

   His followers were disappointed that He didn't overthrow
the Romans and declare himself King, like the Messiah was
supposed to do.  So they abandoned Him.

   The ancient Romans pioneered what was possibly the most cruel
form of torture ever devised by man:  Crucifixion.  They would
drive spikes into their victim's ankles and wrists, smashing
his nerves.  He would hang there in blinding sheets of pain,
slowly suffocating and dehydrating for days, until he
finally expired.

   Jesus was whipped and beaten, literally beyond recognition,
then nailed to a cross between two common criminals.

   One of these criminals was cursing and shouting at Him in a
fit of rage: 'HEY! If you're the KING, why don't you get yourself
down from there!  And US, TOO!!!'

   The other guy went along with this... for a little while. 

   But he saw that Jesus wasn't hurling insults at his
torturers.  Instead He was asking God to forgive them (?!).

   He sobered up.  He said to the other criminal, 'Hey dude,
you and I are here because we deserve it.  But this man Jesus
has done nothing wrong.'

   Then he said to Jesus, 'Remember me when you take charge of
your Kingdom.'

   Jesus simply replied, 'Today you'll be with me in Paradise.'

~~~

   Stop the camera.


   What you have here, in this brief conversation, is a snapshot
of the entire world.

   You have two criminals who have gotten themselves into a
horrendous, awful mess.  And you have the Son of God, who has
not only chosen to live with us in our world of pain and suffering,
but has personally taken all of it upon his own shoulders. 
Even though he is completely innocent.

   One thief refuses to accept any responsibility for his actions. 
He's unwilling to admit that he created the very mess that he's in. 

   He lives in denial until the bitter end.  He grits his teeth and
dies in his sin. 

   The other thief comes clean.  He recognizes that Jesus possesses
divine authority.  He admits his guilt.  He is required to do nothing,
other than to let go of his pride.

   He asks for forgiveness. 

   Forgiveness granted. 

   Jesus' pardon doesn't make the cross or the agony go away.  But
finally the struggle ceases and this man crosses the Great Divide. 
The intense pain dissolves and he steps into a New World, designed
by God Himself -- with renewed body and soul.

   Francis, that's a picture of the entire world, right there. 
You and I are in this mess together, and we've all contributed to it.

   We've all rejected God in some way or another, we've all
committed some kind of crime, and we all experience suffering. 

   The situation is what it is.

   So we have a simple choice: Accept that fact that God has
suffered with us -- or mock him and be furious because the suffering
exists in the first place.


   Which way do you want it???

   The decision is yours.  You and I will never get a true 'answer'
about the pain and suffering we experience in this life.  But in
the midst of our pain, we have a companion.  You and I can have
the same conversation with Jesus that this criminal had, and we
can experience the same forgiveness.  All we have to do is ask,
just like the thief on the cross did on that sad day.

~~~

   This is the last of the Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion. 
I pray that I've helped to strip away all the baggage that the Religious
Gestapo adds to the story and reduce it to the bare essentials.  I
hope this has stirred your mind and your heart. 

   Do you have any comments or questions?  I'd like to hear from you. 
  
   My email address is [e-mail].  I often run behind, but
I'll do my best to respond.

   Respectfully Submitted,

   Perry Marshall
   www.CoffeehouseTheology.com

[BugHunter]

So... did any of ya'll read the stuff above?


Continueing on, I got an exerpt from Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography. This section is entitled "Arriving at Perfection" where we find Ben defining and stating 13 virtues that he'll need in order to achieve that perfection. Of course its a task far more difficult than he first imagined. He spends 1 week on each virtue making sure he masters it before moving onto the next. Ben makes the list in a certain order so that when he masters the first, it'll make it easier to master the second. So here it is, good stuff . Its a good refresher if u already heard them before.

1. Temperance. Eat not to Dulness. Drink not to Elevaion.
2. Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or your self. Avoid trifling conversation.
3. Order. Let all your Things have their Places. Let each Part of your Business have its Time.
4. Resolution. Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve.
5. Frugality. Make no Expence but to do good to others or yourself: i.e. Waste nothing.
6. Industry. Lose no Time. Be always employ'd in something useful. Cut off all unnecessary Actions.
7. Sincerity. Use no hurtful Deceit. Think innocently and justly; and, if you speak; speak accordingly.
8. Justice. Wrong none, by doing Injuries or omitting the Benefits that are your Duty.
9. Moderation. Avoid Extreams. Forbear resenting Injuries so much as you think they deserve.
10. Cleanliness. Tolerate no Uncleanness in Body, Cloaths or Habitation.
11. Tranquility. Be not disturbed at Trifles, or at Accidents common or unavoidable.
12. Chastity. Rarely use Venery but for Health or Offspring; Never to Dulness, Weakness, or the Injury of your own or another's Peace or Reputation.
13. Humility. Imitate Jesus and Socrates



And who says people in the past knew less than us in the contemporary age?

[Deimos]

i'm gonna have to re-read a LOT to catch with whatever happened here...whoo boy